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 Post subject: The things you wish other players knew
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:57 pm 
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On more than one occasion, I've stood in the entrance to a dungeon and watched incredulously as someone in my party asks 'merlot, are you shadow?'. I keep forgetting that other players may have little or no experience of my class. So I keep starting to write the post that will explain what to expect when grouping with me, but I don't know where to start. What about you? What are the key points about your class that people should know when grouping?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:10 pm 
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It's not so much my class that I want folks I group with to know about me. It's my personal preference. For example, people I group with should never expect me to do any CC with my Succubus. It never works. I don't know why. Bad luck? Lack of experience? Both?

Anyways, if you expect me to do CC, it better be a banishable or enslavable demon. Outside of that, I'm happy to off-tank with my Felguard, provided me and the demon get a little healer lovin'.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:53 pm 
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Arrens wrote:
For example, people I group with should never expect me to do any CC with my Succubus. It never works. I don't know why. Bad luck? Lack of experience? Both?


Both, l2p. If seduce is required on some big pulls, why not do it? If you're too lazy and just wanna smash random buttons then look for another group. How can seduce not work for you, I don't get it; if you're succubus keeps dying, simply do more threat to the mob (soul fire, searing pain). It's like mage saying he ain't gonna polymorph because ... can't think of any reason why a mage would say it.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:57 pm 
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Horns wrote:
Arrens wrote:
For example, people I group with should never expect me to do any CC with my Succubus. It never works. I don't know why. Bad luck? Lack of experience? Both?


Both, l2p. If seduce is required on some big pulls, why not do it? If you're too lazy and just wanna smash random buttons then look for another group. How can seduce not work for you, I don't get it; if you're succubus keeps dying, simply do more threat to the mob (soul fire, searing pain). It's like mage saying he ain't gonna polymorph because ... can't think of any reason why a mage would say it.


Because I choose not to and we have other, more viable methods of CC available. It's a personal choice. Should you disagree with that when we're grouped together, fine. I'll search for another group. But to see l2p is neither constructive, nor appreciated.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:05 pm 
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Arrens wrote:
Because I choose not to and we have other, more viable methods of CC available. It's a personal choice. Should you disagree with that when we're grouped together, fine. I'll search for another group. But to see l2p is neither constructive, nor appreciated.


If you had more viable methods of CC, then you wouldn't need to seduce, it's usually used as a somewhat last resort. If someone asks you to do it and you refuse because 'it doesn't work' for you, let me say it again, learn to play.

Also, I'd understand if all I said was 'l2p' and it offended you, but I also gave you some advice and explained my views and if that's not enough, whatever.

That's the i-know-it-all-go-screw-yourself behavior that makes me kick people from groups.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:46 pm 
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Play nice.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:01 am 
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-cough- Back to topic...

I wish people know that if they hire me to DPS, I will DPS. If they want me to OT during this role, fine. Help the tank a few times. I can do that. However, if they hire me to DPS and end up wanting me to OT the whole instance, I will refuse. Get a better tank, or get a DPS who can CC. [druid]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:09 am 
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Lin wrote:
-cough- Back to topic...

I wish people know that if they hire me to DPS, I will DPS. If they want me to OT during this role, fine. Help the tank a few times. I can do that. However, if they hire me to DPS and end up wanting me to OT the whole instance, I will refuse. Get a better tank, or get a DPS who can CC. [druid]


I agree. I'm resto now but when I was feral, there were instances where we had a proper tank and I went in thinking "kitty it up" and they were like "OT circle"

While I don't mind tanking, it's like, well, things are just so slow with two tanks and two dpsers. If we had a proper tank, we can get things done a lot faster...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:50 am 
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Being an enhancement shaman does a few tricky things when in a PUG:

Bears, cats and rogues & huntards all want Grace of Air totem
Warriors want Windfury
Casters want Wrath of Air

Usually they all want these totems at the same time and for the entire dungeon run. 9 times out of 10, I'll simply drop Grace of Air unless a Fury warrior comes into play. I rarely drop Wrath of Air for casters, but I think in pre-BC, I would drop Wrath of Air near the mages for better dps vs. Ragnaros.


On alliance: I've never, ever grouped up in a 5-person group with ANOTHER enhancement shaman. Would be fun.

On horde pre-BC: I did group up with another Tauren enhancement shaman on occasion. It was crazy. Bear tank, two melee shamans, undead priest and hunter. I had GoA and the other shaman drop Wrath of Air. It was funny. Loads of crits.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:36 am 
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I tell ya Asirae, I love the Shammy when he brings the Windfury totem. As a Ret Pally, Ive found my dps boosted by almost 100 to 200dps. I actually feel respectable :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:03 am 
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*coughseduceisaratherviableccimocough*

That aside I wish people realized that the gcd from lifetap can really cut into dps when you add it all up.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:14 am 
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It's funny we have this topic bouncing here in the forums. It's a great idea, because aren't our blogs a perfect avenue to relay information that we want people to know? I use these examples because we're discussing them, but I don't mean anything negative when I use them. If warlocks want to spread the beauty of Seduce as crowd control, why not grab some data and make a blog post? If you think Lifetap cuts into your DPS, I think people would love to see some theorycrafting and your WWS results to prove your theory. People dig that sort of thing in a major way from what I've been able to tell.

=)

And, BTW, as a Rogue, always want Windfury!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:26 am 
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I answered before for feral but for me as resto, what I want warlocks to know, is that I WANT you to lifetap if you're out of mana during a boss fight. I promise you nice lifeblooms and guarantee your living so long as you say you're lifetapping.

I want tanks to know, I don't care so much about your avoidance. I know it's something that you should care about.. but please, have a decent amount of stam too so your HP isn't going to go from full to half in a second.

I want dpsers (clothies especially) to know that you're not a tank (especially those shadow priests.

And hunters, learn to feign death. You don't really have to lay there long unless it's your wipe prevention. But wipe your aggro when you're about to pull aggro because mail or not, you're not a tank either. Also, I don't mind healing pets, but I'd like to see that mend pet too when I have x number of people to heal in a raid.

That is all. Thank you kindly.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:48 pm 
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^ Liar.

I av'd with Onion once and she told me to lifetap, then all of the sudden I was surrounded by red names at 30% hp with nary a hot on me. :<

@Valenna
Alas, its a bit hard for me to really test with WWS. Fat chance my raid is gonna give me an spriest and a shaman just so I can fiddle. :< Especially when all the theorycrafting can probably be found somewhere in the elitistjerk forums already.

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Some mobs and bosses have abilities similar to a Warlock’s own, such as Rain of Fire. If members of your raid are accustomed to moving out of the way when they see the Rain of Fire animation, it will be beneficial to give them additional practice by sporadically casting your own Rain of Fire on large groups of healers.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:42 pm 
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I wish all rogues realized that Vanish is a great tool to improve dps, and not just a way of surviving a wipe. If your Vanish CD is up, you can go all-out dps and when you're just about to grab aggro - Vanish, wipe your threat, Ambush, get back to crazy dps. A rogue with his Vanish available should never grab aggro from the tank. Seems obvious to me, but I' ve grouped with a lot of rogues who didn't seem to realize this.

In fact, I think I'll write a post on my blog about this. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:57 pm 
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Onionpeels wrote:
I want dpsers (clothies especially) to know that you're not a tank (especially those shadow priests.


You have a point, Onionpeels, threat is a huge issue for shadow priests, and I guess that's one of the things I wish people understood better — our primary utility is in returning mana and health to the party, but that comes at a price (greater threat than other dps). My agro dump, fade, is only temporary, and very likely to dump the stray mob on the healer. So typically I won't use it but will take the hit. Other classes can help. To paladins, we love salvation! To mages, if you can spare a frost nova while the tank regains agro, that would be super. Hunters, if you're not on cc, perhaps you could drop a trap at our feet just in case, or pop intimidation if you're specced for it. In return for your kindness, I will use Omen and try to manage my threat as best I can. Good tanks should have few problems from me, but if I do pull agro I will run towards them. And if all of these things fall into place, I will ultimately make the healer's job easier, not harder, by levelling out stray damage, keeping locks and pets topped up, and keeping players in mana.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:14 pm 
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No hunters? Fine, I'll represent.

I wish people would realize that just because I'm BM specced, my pet is not a tank. Can he off-tank in a dungeon? Yes, with a bit of help from healers. Even with Imp Mend Pet, tho, I'm not gonna keep him alive if he's swarmed without some help.

I wish tanks would realize that just because they are at the corner and can see the mobs they are marking, doesn't mean I can. If you want me to trap a mob I can't see, tell me it's coming. And please, don't mark a caster for me to trap. That means I have to fall back far enough to get out of the caster's spell range in order to get it to chase me and hit the trap. That puts me way out of dps range, which means that the mob you are working on is going to stand longer.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:14 pm 
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Pellegri wrote:
^ Liar.

I av'd with Onion once and she told me to lifetap, then all of the sudden I was surrounded by red names at 30% hp with nary a hot on me. :<


I said "during a bossfight"!

But no, Pellegri has a point. When your druid is saying to lifetap during AV, make sure she has you on focused before you start. ><

SORRY OKAY?! <3

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:17 pm 
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Evil Sheep wrote:
No hunters? Fine, I'll represent.

I wish people would realize that just because I'm BM specced, my pet is not a tank. Can he off-tank in a dungeon? Yes, with a bit of help from healers. Even with Imp Mend Pet, tho, I'm not gonna keep him alive if he's swarmed without some help.

I wish tanks would realize that just because they are at the corner and can see the mobs they are marking, doesn't mean I can. If you want me to trap a mob I can't see, tell me it's coming. And please, don't mark a caster for me to trap. That means I have to fall back far enough to get out of the caster's spell range in order to get it to chase me and hit the trap. That puts me way out of dps range, which means that the mob you are working on is going to stand longer.


/agree

As a BM hunter myself, this couldn't be more true.

Of course, if they did that, I'd point it out, and if they kept doing it, I'll just lay a trap at our healer's feet and DPS away. Oh, and shoot a few things at the caster so they don't start casting at our healer.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:40 pm 
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I wish people knew that your damage meter is not accurate if you didn't merge my pets damage with mine. I hate when I get in a group or something and someone comments about me doing terrible DPS, yet when I link my meter, I go up to 1st through 3rd in DPS because all that clawing my pet did.

I also wish they knew that I can chain trap a mob. But realize it does have a heart beat chance to break, so if you see my kiting the mob after I Wing Clip it or something, this is not your cue to DoT it up. If I need help because I can't get it trapped, I will let you know.

I strongly dislike individuals who refuse to use all facets of their class. I played a Warrior since beta up until a couple months ago. If your group needs you to off-tank, you friggin' off-tank. If it is furthering your goals, so be it. No one is going to ask you to tank Prince as Fury (if they are, you should leave anyways), or any other boss that requires a real tank that is specced for it. But if you won't off-tank, use your CC, or use all tools available to your class, leave the group and go solo. That way no one has to depend on you doing anything outside of rolling your face on a keyboard. > >

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:10 pm 
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Behemothdan wrote:
I wish people knew that your damage meter is not accurate if you didn't merge my pets damage with mine. I hate when I get in a group or something and someone comments about me doing terrible DPS, yet when I link my meter, I go up to 1st through 3rd in DPS because all that clawing my pet did.


So so so very QFT.

Same with people who brag because their attack power is higher than mine. But let's see what happens if they merge my attack power with my pet's :wink:

As for CC; on the one hand I sort of wish more people had faith in my traps; I've been in a ton of groups where there's this frantic rush to kill the trapped mob before the sapped mob or the seduced mob or whatever because they assume that the trap will break first and then there will be a loose mob. Despite the fact that 99% of the time I've got another trap ready, and will have another trap ready after that.

But on the other hand I can understand wanting to be safe rather than sorry and I know that a lot of people have had bad experiences with hunters who can't trap, so I guess I really can't blame anybody for that. Usually after doing a bit of the instance the PuG realizes I can trap and starts letting me do my job. Which is nice because it always bugs me that people will try to "help" me do my job. For example, druids loooooove to hibernate beast mobs that I'm trying to chain trap. And I realize they're trying to be helpful or whatever but c'mon... I know what I'm doing! :P If I am chain trapping, it will "look" like a mob is loose for a few seconds. Doesn't mean I necessarily need help!

Oh one more thing; if my pet has died then please give me a few seconds to revive him, heal him, and then feed him. After I feed him it takes ten or fifteen seconds or so for him to get back to maximum happiness. Please give me the time to do that. Maximum happiness = more DPS.

Love, your friendly neighborhood hunter ^^


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:12 pm 
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Lin wrote:
-cough- Back to topic...

I wish people know that if they hire me to DPS, I will DPS. If they want me to OT during this role, fine. Help the tank a few times. I can do that. However, if they hire me to DPS and end up wanting me to OT the whole instance, I will refuse. Get a better tank, or get a DPS who can CC. [druid]


If I'm hired as DPS and end up having to OT most of the time, I just throw on some bear gear and out-tank the tank (usually doing a better job at it, too).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:52 pm 
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Twalkins wrote:
Lin wrote:
-cough- Back to topic...

I wish people know that if they hire me to DPS, I will DPS. If they want me to OT during this role, fine. Help the tank a few times. I can do that. However, if they hire me to DPS and end up wanting me to OT the whole instance, I will refuse. Get a better tank, or get a DPS who can CC. [druid]


If I'm hired as DPS and end up having to OT most of the time, I just throw on some bear gear and out-tank the tank (usually doing a better job at it, too).


I've done that too, but then wonder why the hell am I tanking when I joined to DPS? Might as well have me tank the whole instance, because I can and wouldn't need an OT.

If they want me to OT, they should hire me to OT. Otherwise, I will be DPSing until the rare pulls where, for group success, I should OT.

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